Back Once Again With A Second Kickstarter...

 ... asking for less cash, still with loadsa questions. (Apologies to Fatboy Slim).

Screenshot from Kickstarter.com

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again is the motto here and after the failure to reach a lofty €50,000 goal back in January, Stefan Frohling is back again with his second attempt at improving RISC OS. No longer called Cloverleaf, the new Kickstarter is now simply RISC OS and has a rather lower goal of €6,000. So what has changed since the first attempt?

At first perusal, lots!

There are a total of 20 rewards now, from your basic €1 pledge to the massive €1,000 tier that gets you... nothing. Nice if you have access to that sort of cash to throw around. In between, things have been arranged differently from last time, and this arrangement has caused more than a few questions to be asked about the campaign and whether or not this should actually be on Kickstarter.

The campaign rewards are as follows:

€1 - to show you care.

€19 - support enhancements to the RPCEmu emulator (but you don't actually receive anything). For the same amount of money, you can also pledge for a Cloverleaf RISC OS t-shirt.

€39 - offers you a download of the Cloverleaf RISC OS Pi distro or the Cloverleaf Distro for emulators. Whether this is good value or not, well, that's up to you, but since you can get free distro's of RISC OS from RISC OS Open here and RISC OS Direct here, that's a pretty penny to pay for an OS, the core of which is free. There are some extra's included with the Cloverleaf Distro and you will be supporting additional development, but as always, it's up to you what you consider worth your money. 

€49 - lots of different options, but basically this amount can be put to one of the following: WiFi driver development, Desktop Improvements, the ArtCube photo editor, 2D/3D GPU support, RISC OS Filer improvements or a driver for NVMe storage. That's quite a list. You can amend the pledge afterwards to support multiple goals in this (and other) tiers. Of note, the three options involving the ChatCube application have all been removed since the project launched - they had a combined development cost of about €5,000. However, pledging does not guarantee that particular tier will be developed. Depending on which tiers receive the most funding, if your pledged tier is not chosen for initial development, you will be asked to amend it to a tier that will be developed or you can request a refund. I feel this is just plain wrong - the pledge tiers are not a customer survey, they are there to be delivered if overall project funding is successful. As it stands, as of time of writing, only the GPU support has received a pledge so makes it a bit of a moot point, but still, this is NOT how Kickstarter campaigns should be used.

€55 - you can pledge for an SD card containing the Cloverleaf Distro for Pi-based hardware.

€69 - creation of a Programming IDE called CodeCube.

€85 - the Cloverleaf distro plus (containing additional software including !Fireworkz Pro, !Messenger Pro and more) on SD card.

€199 - the Cloverleaf distro with ArtCube, !Artworks and !Fireworkz Pro included. Not bad considering the current list price of the latest version of !Artworks is €190. The KS page does not state what version you are getting though and, more importantly, this is the re-selling of an existing package. Kickstarter guidelines prohibit re-selling. After all, it's meant to support creators. For the same amount, €199 you can also pledge for the RISC OS distro for the RK3399 chip which powers the Puma desktop. I'll get to that in a bit, as well as the Pinebook Pro that is referenced in the KS but isn't a pledge item.

€215 - the Cloverleaf distro with !Artworks etc on an SD card. 

€299 - the Kitten Pi desktop. This includes the Cloverleaf distro plus, one year of software support and a case that mirrors the already available 4te from R-Comp. In fact, that machine is about a tenner cheaper and comes supplied with a ton of included software. The Cloverleaf machine will also come with a t-shirt if that's your kind of thing. A note on re-selling. Whilst this is a Raspberry Pi 4 based machine (so re-reselling the Pi), you receive a computer Cloverleaf have assembled with the OS etc that will work out of the box. Fair enough, not directly re-selling there, I think.

€399 - the Puma desktop - running an RK3399 chipset. More powerful than the Kitten. In the last campaign, there was the option of a 14-inch laptop at this price point (the Pinebook Pro). Kickstarter decreed that just passing on the laptop with an OS added is re-selling, whereas putting a board into a case you have created/sourced is not. Hence no 14-inch laptop.

€1,000 - to show you really, really care and you get nothing for this. 

So what do I think?

Some of you may remember my initial enthusiasm for Cloverleaf when it was first announced. This became more guarded when the campaign launched and now, well, I'm not entirely convinced - though it must be said, more than happy to be proven wrong here. There are still questions to be answered...

Firstly, the name. Cloverleaf is still the name of the distro, but calling the campaign RISC OS is slightly disingenuous as this sounds like it is coming from the OS rights holders when in fact it is not. For people new to the OS, it would perhaps be confusing and they would be better off checking out the established websites such as RISCOSDev and RISC OS Open to name but two... 

Next up is the funding goal - €6,000 is a low target and if you read through the pledge options, you can see that the total estimated cost of development of the various features ranges from €63,000 to €104,000 (now that the ChatCube pledges have been removed). I can see why the target is low - to ensure funding is secured. The plan for spending the pledged funds is more open than before, detailing as it does what will happen after the campaign has closed and whether or not your pledge will be acted upon (refund or move funds to another goal), so that's more clear, but it's still opaque enough to raise queries. Why the scattershot approach to financing several improvements at the same time and using people's money to determine the primary development goals? Why not launch a Kickstarter for one or two goals (maybe one as a stretch) whilst offering hardware to entice existing users with the improvements and new users with a machine? I mean, that looks like the thinking behind the latest campaign but there are far too many options here. I feel that this is definitely a case of more is too much. Admitting that not all of the goals will be reached with this funding round might be open and honest, but in itself, it goes against the guidelines of Kickstarter - your project must be 100% deliverable using the achieved funding goal. That's the reason for the goal. With this campaign, it's very much "trust us, give us your money and we'll do something with it..." That, more than anything else, raises a red flag for me. If you want my money, you need to convince me that what I put my money towards will be delivered. That is not the case with the the €49 software tiers in this project. 

Then there are the risk levels. Each of the software goals has a timescale and a risk level, most of which are rated as no risk or low risk. Now, being just a humble software QA tester, far be it from me to question timescales in software development or risk factors, but I really would like to know how they are classifying risk and what their timescales are based on. From personal experience, if a developer tells me something is simple and has a low level of risk, that almost certainly means low flying faecal matter will intersect with a large spinny thing. I could be very wrong here, but my cynicism is strong with this one.

And those timescales. Interesting and intriguing. The Kitten Pi4 is just a Pi in a case with an SD card, so no real concerns there. However, my attention is drawn to the Puma. Estimated delivery is August/September. Estimated delivery of the RK3399 distro is November. Does that mean the Puma is an expensive doorstop for three months? Or will it ship with a Linux distro in the short-term?

I don't want to sound too harsh about Cloverleaf, as the goal of improving RISC OS is noble and if it can bring new users to the OS, the better it is for RISC OS as a whole. However, I am not sure a Kickstarter promising new, currently unsupported hardware and new software enhancements that have a suspiciously risk free timescale is the best way for a newbie to enter the world of RISC OS. I think a trip to one of the three existing hardware suppliers is probably your best bet. Still, what Cloverleaf are trying here is a different way of funding (compared to the existing bounty-led voluntary funding process) and you can see it's aimed at both the existing (software improvements) and potential (hardware) user base. Given that there have been some notable failures from successfully funded Kickstarter campaigns, I can't help but think that maybe Stefan should have started small (say the ArtCube program, Cloverleaf Pi Distro, Kitten Pi desktop for the main funding goal and then some software improvements as stretch goals?) and built upwards (another Kickstarter for the RK3399 distro and the Puma desktop, more software improvements as stretch goals?). By achieving smaller goals successfully, that would gain trust and respect from potential supporters as they would see a history of successful funding and, more importantly, delivery. Instead, we have a suspiciously low funding target (that at the time of posting had been met) and goal approach that looks as organised as a flock of spuggies. 

Maybe it's enthusiasm, maybe it's the pressing need of a timescale no-one apart from Stefan knows about, but surely it would be better to take small steps, build up a reputation and a customer base (whilst also creating revenue streams from the applications being created) and staying well within Kickstarter's guidelines? 

Anyhoo, that's my tuppence worth into the conversation. I'll certainly be keeping an eye on the project as it approaches it's closing date on June 16th and hey, you never know, this might be successful in both funding and execution. That's the joys of Kickstarter, it's your money you risk with every single pledge. You have to make your mind up if you believe that the project will be successful if funded. What I would say is that if this project does appeal to you, carefully read the Kickstarter pages first and then have a perusal in the Cloverleaf thread in the RISC OS Open forums. There has certainly been a great deal of debate, from both the original campaign and the new one, the latter of which starts on page 10 of the thread. 

RISC OS Cloverleaf - thoughts on the funding campaign

Regular readers (including you, Eddie), may recall this post from the beginning of October about the Cloverleaf Project. This began its Kickstarter funding campaign last Tuesday and as of the time of posting, had reached 24% of its funding goal. I was going to revisit the three questions I posed at the end of that post concerning the project but as I read through the Kickstarter campaign blurb, I realised that I had this all wrong. 

The desktop range... (screenshot from Kickstarter)

... alongside the laptop and all-in-one design (screenshot from Kickstarter).

What we have is a drive to get people who don't use RISC OS into the market. The t-shirt is a marketing touch but really, the included copy of Archive magazine (latest issue reviewed here), the RISC OS Introduction book and the included software are all there to support the new user. In many ways, this mirrors the packages created for the Amiga back in the day, taking the manufacturers' bundle and adding extras. The ones I most remember are Silica Systems (pictured below) but their were many more retailers that did the same thing, such as Hobbyte, Gordon Harwood and Diamond.

I miss 90's magazine adverts.

I don't think this is a bad idea at all, to be honest and I applaud the attempt to bring RISC OS to a wider audience. I would like to see the project succeed as any new software development fed back into the core OS can only be a good thing, as is the aim to get the OS running on a different ARM chipset. However, I have some niggles about Cloverleaf that I wish to note...

Their timeline for one.

This is... aspirational? (screenshot from Kickstarter)

As you can see, there is a very small window from the end of funding to getting hardware into the hands of supporters. The Kitten is now a Raspberry Pi 4-based system and the 11-inch laptop is no longer an option (even though it's still on the timeline...). I can understand the former, as it means they can easily get some hardware out to specific backers, but the latter? Unless they can't source them anymore? As for the other systems, RISC OS does not support the RK3399 processor but they hope to have deliverable systems within three months of funding. They do state that hardware may ship without some functionality (it would have to considering their deadline for NVMe support, but actual OS support???). The thought of pledging for the top end Puma desktop and not having access to a key feature for two months sits poorly with me. Also remember, that's development and testing time - as a software QA tester by trade, I think Cloverleaf aren't leaving enough time to get their offerings to a user ready state. Unless they want to use the backers as testers which is not a good idea at all, especially if said users are new to the OS anyway. 

I know, Kickstarter is not a shop. It's a backer funded system that should, hopefully, deliver on the campaign promises. However, the Puma desktop/laptop/all-in-one pledges are not small amounts of money and I question the belief that they should ship hardware that isn't fully operational. Will new users stick with the OS if bits don't work out of the box and the introductory guide is months away? I wonder...

This campaign has been likened to that of the Spectrum Next which successfully reached it's second campaign total and then some. Cloverleaf is not at all similar to that machine. Whereas the Next is a bespoke machine that is trying to do something different, other than emulation of a retro system, Cloverleaf is, in a way, duplicating a lot of what is already out there. The last six Kickstarters I have pledged to have been for projects that have been extremely specific and unique. From histories of the PS Vita, Dreamcast and Amiga, a definitive guide to Sierra On-Line games and a history of British Bullpup Firearms, all have filled a niche where previously nothing existed. Cloverleaf doesn't, and this brings me to the hardware.

I can already buy ready made kit from a number of suppliers, ready to go out of the box and with documentation to help me along. The 4te is £250, RISCOSbits can get you a working machine from £59 and even the higher end systems don't break the £300 barrier unless you buy add-ons or go portable. These prices make Cloverleaf look expensive. Take a RISCOSbits Delta Pi Lite 256 with 4GB of  RAM: £189. Buy an Archive magazine subscription (£40) and the RISC OS 5 user guide (£20.00). Add delivery for seasoning and you get a RISC OS desktop by the end of the month with easy access to the PlingStore and PackMan to add any software you need, and plenty to read, for £249.00 plus postage - cheaper than the Kitten desktop that you might, if everything goes to plan, receive three months from now with the beginners guide three months further out. And if you want a t-shirt, RISC OS Open do them for £12.50.

You could counter that the Cloverleaf pledge also supports software development for the OS and that's what is advertised, though how much of that will benefit the RISC OS universe is open to question. If you wanted to, you can directly support the development of the OS by pledging toward the bounty schemes here so there are other ways of supporting development other than via Cloverleaf. 

I will point out here that there has been a lively thread in the RISC OS Open: Forum about the project and if you have a look through it, you'll see a good amount of dialogue from project lead, Stefan, including a bit of an explanation as to dev resources posted on the 22nd November. This is handy to know and perhaps should have been included somewhere in the Kickstarter. They want you to hand over money, so the more detail about what the project will do (not just aspire to) is a good thing.

A list of included software with Cloverleaf (screenshot from Kickstarter)

This piece is not intended as a hit job, it's really not. As I have stated above, I like the idea of the Kickstarter campaign. I hope it raises the profile of RISC OS and maybe drums up some more support. However, as an existing user, this drive is not aimed at me and, as I have demonstrated above, if you know the market, you can get alternatives to Cloverleaf products more quickly and for less money.

I admit, I was carried away by my earlier enthusiasm for Cloverleaf. Looking at it in the hard light of day from my perspective, it's not something I think will I support but then again, I am torn on the issue. I don't need another desktop system and though I do want a RISC OS laptop, I think north of £500 for something I won't get for at least another seven months is an ask too far. Truth be told, I am also holding out for the article in the next issue of Archive magazine about portable RISC OS computers, as I have yet to see a proper review of the options available and I do like to do some research before handing over a few hundred pounds on anything. 

At the end of the day, it's a personal choice and I doubt my wittering will have much sway on your decision. This a new way of trying to grow the user base and awareness which, although it has its pitfalls, I hope it manages to succeed where it can. If more information comes out via the Kickstarter page or the forums, I may change my mind, but at present, it's not for me.

RISC OS Cloverleaf - thoughts and comments

In my last post, I mentioned the Cloverleaf project (possibly a dream given form but definitely not our last, best hope for peace...) that is gaining a fair amount of attention in the RISC OS world. As a keen RISC OS user and someone who is considering a new hardware purchase, I thought I'd give you a run down of the project and my own thoughts on it.

At heart, Cloverleaf is an attempt to use crowdfunding to not only bring new hardware to the RISC OS market, but also to support development of and improvements to the OS itself. Their website states that they aim to provide an alternative to Microsoft, Apple and Google produced operating systems, and bring support for modern day functionality such as Wifi, USB3 and NVMe drives to the OS. These are noble goals. The crowdfunding isn't live as of yet but they have provided details on the hardware and prices on their website, screenshots of which are below. So let's have a look at what they are asking for.

For 99 euros (approx £90), you can become a RISC OS supporter.

Screenshot from Cloverleaf Website.

This gets you a download of the Cloverleaf Distro for RISC OS hardware and emulators, and supports development of the OS. There is also a t-shirt and a printed copy of Archive magazine. Depending on how much you want a t-shirt, this isn't a bad pledge amount. The copy of Archive is a nice touch (and also included with each computer bought as well) and I hope the t-shirt's are available in a suitable range of sizes - not all of us are as slim as we used to be!

If it's hardware you're after then the cheapest option is the Cloverleaf Kitten 64 for 299 euros (£275 approx). This includes a 100 euro (£91 approx) support pledge for further RISC OS development.

Screenshot from Cloverleaf website.

Taking the support pledge away for a moment, £184 for that spec machine is rather decent, using as it seems to the Pine ROCKPro64 board as its foundation. You get a fast multi-core processor (of which RISC OS will only support one core but hey, it's a development need), 4GB of RAM, which is more than enough for RISC OS, and a reasonable amount of storage to get you going. This does sound like a handy little machine though, from the listing, you don't get a keyboard or mouse. Then again, they're not going to break the bank to add yourself if you don't have any lying around the house. 

The step up from the Kitten is the the Cloverleaf Puma 128, costing 599 euros (£550), again with a 100 euro (£91) support pledge. 

Screenshot from Cloverleaf website.

This ups the storage to a 128GB NVMe drive, so bigger and faster. You also get a keyboard and mouse in with the package. As the main board is the same as the Kitten 64, I am wondering what else there is to justify the 300 euro (£275) price difference. I have seen pictures on the Cloverleaf Facebook Group that shows the case with a DVD drive installed but there's no reference yet as to whether it's included in this higher priced machine or if it's an extra to be added later.

On to the laptops now, and this is an area that, outside of old Acorn A4's, has lacked dedicated hardware until the release of the Armbook and re-purposing of Pi-Tops. As with the desktops, there are two models in the Cloverleaf line-up. 

Your budget option is the Cloverleaf Netbook, yours for 399 euros (£365) including a 50 euro (£45) support pledge. 

Screenshot from Cloverleaf website.

Unlike the desktop options, you have a different processor but still more than enough for the purpose of the OS. You get an 11-inch display, 2GB of RAM, a reasonable amount of SD storage and, well, that's pretty much it. From what I can tell, this is a re-badged Pinebook which is no bad thing. After all, that's also what the Armbook is. I do have a question as to whether the Netbook will have a similar set of RISC OS utilities as supplied with the Armbook to improve the RISC OS laptop user experience. That same question also applies to the high-end machine.

The Cloverleaf Notebook is 599 euros (£550) with a 100 euro (£91) support pledge. 

Screenshot from the Cloverleaf website.

This sees a return to the same Rockchip RK3399 processor as the desktop range. We have 4GB of RAM and 128GB NVMe storage of the Puma desktop along with a 14-inch display. This is a re-badged Pinebook Pro - again, no bad thing. For the sake of appearances though, I do feel they shouldn't have just copied the Puma spec for the Notebook - unless you also get a wireless keyboard and mouse with the laptop...

The last machine in the line up is the Cloverleaf All-in-one PC, yours for 899 euros (£820) with that 100 euro (£91) support pledge. 

Screenshot from the Cloverleaf website

I'm not sure about the need for an all in one design but since they're offering it... You get the same basic spec as the Puma desktop but with a different storage set up and that built-in 24-inch display. This is probably the machine I am the least excited about just because I am not a fan of all-in-one designs. I prefer to have the freedom of hooking up my own monitor, but that shouldn't take away from the intention of producing such a form factor.

So there you have it, the range of computers Cloverfield want to release. By using the already available hardware from Pine64.org, a lot of the risk any crowdfunded hardware project entails should be mitigated, as the availability of the Pinebook-based Armbook attests. That surely counts in the project's favour.

But...

(and you knew there would be a "but", right?)

But... there are a few questions I'd like to see answered by the time pledges go live. 

Question One: What is the reason for the price difference between the Kitten and the Puma (either a line from an episode of The Man from Uncle or one of the worst interview questions ever devised)? That 300 euro difference cannot just be for the NVMe drive, keyboard and mouse. Those three items can be had from Amazon for less than 80 euros (£72) so even doubling that for fitting and margin, that still leaves a hefty 140 euro difference and at heart it is the same specification board.

Question Two: Will there be a similar suite of utilities as provided with the already available Armbook to cover keyboard/mouse mapping, battery, lock screen and the like? That software is something that makes the Armbook a more attractive purchase than the Netbook/Notebook models at the moment and from a laptop users perspective, near essential.

Question Three: How exactly is the support funding going to be used? I can see from the website the project targets but some more detail on where and how the money is to be spent would be nice. After all, they're asking for £45/£90 per pledge to go into a pot that ideally requires some explanation beyond "here's what we'd like to spend it on."

I am incredibly interested in the aims of the Cloverleaf project. I've followed them via their various social media profiles from their early days and have appreciated how engaged they have been with the RISC OS community in general. I know crowdfunding has had its share of successes and failures, but I'd say I am optimistic about this one. The basic hardware is already in production for other purposes so I am intrigued to see how much their funding goals are (given the relatively small size of the RISC OS market at present). If the above questions are answered in due time (and address the points raised), then I'll happily support the initiative, leading to a dilemma: choosing which of the machines to get (apart from the all-in-one, obviously!).